Showing posts with label Same-Sex Marriage. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Same-Sex Marriage. Show all posts

Monday, August 6, 2012

Free Speech and Tolerance, and Gay Marriage

Yet another stream of consciousness essay, inspired by current events and some frustration.  As humans we have come so far, and yet… we still have so far to go.
One of my wife’s Grandmother’s favorite idioms was, “They can’t shoot you for what you are thinking.”  Think about it for a moment, what the moral of that statement is telling us.

By now, everyone has heard about the angst, arguments, and diatribes brewing over the comment made by the CEO of Chick fil A – David Cathy – regard is his views of gay marriage.  I have even participated in a few discussions online, and it is very telling in my opinion.

Depending on whose feed you are reading, we have anything from a complete and total intolerance of Christian beliefs, to a constitutional violation of Mr. Cathy’s freedom of religious or speech rights, to an unconstitutional restraint of trade violation.

Before I start express my views, I’d like to relate a couple of stories:
When my own attitudes toward homosexuality began to moderate years ago, I was finally able to begin social relationships with members of the gay community.  Sitting with a gay acquaintance one day, I asked him why he chose to be gay?  His response was, “why do you choose to be heterosexual?” His reply stumped me, and began a period of personal introspection.  At the time, all I could say is that because I am, to which he replied, “Exactly!”

Seems in the time since this conversation I have learn, at least from the gay people that I know, and contrary to most Christian claims, homosexuality is no more a choice, than choosing to be heterosexual, male or female, or any of the other biological components that make us who we are, and in fact there is mounting evidence that homosexuality is biological.

The second story is much less pleasant.  A decade ago I developed a friendship with a gay couple, through one of my charitable endeavors.  This couple had been in a committed monogamous relationship for almost 20 years, even going so far as to have a palimony agreement drawn up.  At the age of 48, Bob suffered a massive stroke, and was hospitalized.  Before Frank was notified and could get to the hospital, Bob’s family left instructions that no one but family was to be allow in to visit.  This exiled Frank to the hallway outside of Bob’s room and the waiting room, unable to see his friend and partner of almost two decades.  Sitting in that hospital waiting every possible minute, hoping beyond hope that he might be allowed in, he told me that he only saw family members at the hospital twice.  About two weeks after suffering the stroke, Bob passed away, never allow to have the love of his life with him.  And… to throw salt in an already deep wound, Frank was banned by the family from attending Bob’s memorial services and funeral.  Frank could even visit the grave site until after the family had left.

That would have never been permitted, if, like heterosexuals, Bob and Frank had the legal protection of a marriage contract.

Okay, now let’s get to some of the issues being argued as a result of this most recent Chick fil A event:

First there are the claims of tolerance and intolerance by both sides, and they are both right.  How is that possible you ask?  There seems that the mere definition of tolerance is a dichotomy in today’s society.

tol·er·ance

1. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.
2. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward opinions and practices that differ from one's own.
3. interest in and concern for ideas, opinions, practices, etc., foreign to one's own; a liberal, undogmatic viewpoint.
4. the act or capacity of enduring; endurance: My tolerance of noise is limited.
And since that first definition brings into view the term bigotry, let’s look and that definition as well, since it has bearing on this essay:

big·ot·ry

1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.
It would appear at first blush, based on these definitions at their face value, that both sides of this argument are being intolerant and bigoted toward the other side’s position.  But, like so many things in life, if you put things in context, the view changes.  The Christian right, and I use Christian right because I have many friend who are Christian who are moderate and don’t feel this way, would like you to believe that the media, et al, are being intolerant because they are speaking out against Mr. Cathy’s professed and publicly acknowledged religious views and beliefs, and calling for boycotts of products provided by his company.  Yet, they refuse to acknowledge that Mr. Cathy’s religious views and beliefs (and in many cases, their own) are intolerant and bigoted.  And they are so, not because they are religious, but because they are support denying rights and legal protection to gay citizens, guaranteed to all citizens, simply because of their religious beliefs.  They want to and are actively pursuing civil laws that will require everyone to live according to their religious belief.  From the gay marriage support side, no one that I know is trying to legislate that Christian fundamentalists must associate with, or provide services to gay individuals, allow them to be married in their institutions, or requiring these fundamentalists to change their belief.  So, from my point of view, I believe it is clear who is being bigoted and intolerant, and I don’t expect those individuals to agree with me.  I just hope that if you are one of those on the fence, you’ll take a moment to truly think about which side you want to jump too.  And remember it was just under fifty years ago, that the federal government had to step in, one hundreds after we fought one to worst wars in our history to resolve the issue,  and acknowledge through legislation that Black Citizens of this country were not 3/4s of a citizen and or equal but separate.
Now for the funniest, ironic not haha, conversation I’ve had on this issue, the constitutionality of the activities being taken against Mr. Cathy and his beliefs.  I had on individual who at first claimed that Mr. Cathy’s constitutional rights were being violated, and then claimed they were about to be violated.  She claim a thorough knowledge of the Constitution, and her contention was that because the mayors of Boston and Chicago have stated that they would do anything in their power to prevent Chick fil A from opening stores in their cities, they are or would be violating the constitution because they weren’t adhering to their oath of office to uphold the Constitution.  REALLY?!?  I asked a simple question in response to this claim – twice, “please cite constitutional amendment and or clause being, or about to be, violated?”  At first I was told that I should do the research, which would lead me to the conclusion that she was correct.  And finally, that she was ending the discussion because I was twisting her words and it wasn’t a true and honest discussion.  The real truth of the matter, which I couldn’t say at the time because it was another friend’s thread, is that this person couldn’t find her ass with both hands and road map.  Even with the conservative leaning of our U.S. Supreme court, they wouldn’t bite on that one.  I believe these mayors have push the edge of reasonable government intervention with their comments, but, just for enlightenment, let’s look at this possible constitutional issue.

I did a quick online search of the online Constitution and can only find two references to commerce, neither of which have applications to municipalities where Chick fil A might be concerned, and no references to free trade, so unless someone would like to point me elsewhere, not violation there.  Now, I know I making assumptions here, but, the only area I can think of that this person might have been try to elude to as a constitutional violation would be the 1st Amendment, and for clarity sake I have copied and pasted that amendment direct for the online source:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
In my discussions over the years, but specifically more recently, there appears to be an interpretation of this amendment to mean that you are free to practice your religion or speak your mind without repercussion.  That is not true, and it never has been the case.  Just for a few of references; you cannot exercise your right to free speech, by running into a crowded room (a theater being the most common description) and yell FIRE!!! without warrant.  You will quite possibly face legal issues for doing so.  There are other cases where free speech right may face limited.  Most everyone is aware that righteous and pious members of Westboro Baptist Church have for sometime protested the funerals of our fallen warriors because of their views on homosexuality.  Since the Supreme Court agreed that this activity is protected under the 1st Amendment, Congress recently passed legislation limiting the time these protests can occur.   It will be interesting to see what the Court does with this legislation, but, I’d bet it get upheld.  On passing laws restricting the free exercise of religion, have we forgotten the laws against polygamy?  A practice observed by early Mormons, and still practiced by some renegade sects, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses have lost about as many Supreme Court case as they have won regarding their free exercise.  And the Supreme has continually maintain that free exercise of religion is not absolute.  So, again, I can see nothing that either of the mayors of Boston or Chicago have done or intend to do with regards to Chick fil A business being prevented from conducting business in their cities as having any constitutional issue.
It would seem to me that, like religion, many find easier to believe and accept without challenge what we have been taught or told, without actually checking for themselves.

And finally…

While the concept of marriage may have some of its roots in religious concepts, it is long since removed for its simple theological base.  I know there are probably some renegade sects who will marry a couple without a license, in America you can be married without a religiously based service, but, you will not be considered legally married without obtain a license from your local city or county clerk.  So in your society today, at least here in America, a marriage is more so a legal contract between two citizens, regardless of race, color, or religion…  Only thing missing there is sex.  While those fundamentalist Christian may want to erroneously claim that Mr. Cathy’s constitutional rights are being infringed, I think it is quite clear and evident, at least by my reading, that the gay community’s 14th Amendment right of “equal protection of the law” is most definitely being violated.  Read it for yourself:
AMENDMENT XIV
Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868. 
Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Interestingly, regardless of the coverage on T.V. that might seem to indicate differently, most public survey today point to a majority of citizens (even a growing number in the Christian communities) in this country who believe, as I do, that the legal social contract that is marriage in this country should be extended to all citizens of legal age.  And, as far as I can determine, no one I know believes that anyone should be punished for believing that gay marriage is wrong, it can be wrong for them.  But, making what they believe is wrong for them illegal for everyone is wrong for everyone.  To do otherwise and we are simply dressing up the antiquated view and beliefs in new clothes, and using them to oppress a class of people with whom we disagree.

I’ll close with this:  I opened with Grandma’s idiom, “They can’t shoot you for what you are thinking,” and asked you to think about the moral in it.  Well have you?



Your comments or questions are always welcome, and I have added an email address for those not wishing to comment openly in this forum.  Emails can be sent to recoveringcathcon@gmail.com. However, please know that if this account is used to flood me with trash and hate mail, I will shut it down.




Thursday, May 17, 2012

A Question for my Christian Friends

I been trying to decide which way I want to go with this blog?   I think I’ve been pretty clear about my opinions on religion and how I came to them, so I don’t see much more need to explain my views.  Just as a recap, I am an agnostic, not an atheist…  Well most Christian would call atheist, because I don’t believe in their god, but then I don’t believe in any of the other manmade gods either, but, I won’t argue the concept of a God, that is, based on our current level of comprehension, an unknowable and improvable point for either side.  But, that is not the purpose of this post…

I have a question for my Christian friends who stand with the desire to band any marriage, but that between a man and a woman.  With President Obama just recently announcing his support for same-sex marriage, and North Carolina going a completely different direction…  banning just about any civil union, other than a traditional marriage, I am left with some curiosity on the Christians’ true position on marriage.  Seems to me, from the arguments I have heard there are just a couple of keep points in the arguments:

1.      Somehow the concept of a marriage is, and always has been, the traditional view of a single union between and man and a woman.

2.      That somehow same-sex marriages will destroy the sanctity of marriage.

Seems on the first point, that the traditional view of marriage is only traditional to primarily Christians and Jews, and even in their views, some discrepancy in their interpretations, the Mormons claim to be Christians, yet believe in polygamy (even if most do practice it today).  That’s just one point…  In the Middle East, a man having multiple wives is also not uncommon.  I have also heard that the general view that for Christians the Bible specifically forbids relationships between members of the same sex.  Yet, I heard a very compelling argument by a young gay Christian that would seem to indication there are some interpretational discrepancies in Biblical claim of forbidding homosexual relations.  Additionally confusing the matter is the combining of Hebrew law and doctrine along with newer Christian law and doctrine within the canonization of the Christian Bible.  Now I have checked, but there now come the questions of traditional marriage in all the other theological views in the world?  I don’t know for sure, but, I have heard different things for some of other friends of differing religious views.  Finally, it was all that long ago that a traditional of marriage excluded interracial unions.  So the question here is:  Is your traditional view of marriage actually traditional?

But it is the second point that I find the most curious.  It would seem to me that the religious views of the sanctity of the holy bonds of matrimony were long ago damaged beyond repair.  First, if marriage is a holy sacrament, why then did the churches not lobby the government to stay out of the marriage business by preventing it from issuing ‘marriage’ licenses, and disallowing a justice of the peace to perform a marriage ceremonies.  It would seem that this would have been the time to differentiate between marriages as defined by religious institutions and civil unions as defined for legal purposes.  Interestingly, at least here in this country, you can have a marriage performed by a civil authority that isn’t recognized by any church.  However, I don’t know of many churches that will marry you without that civil license, and even if they do, it isn’t recognized as a legal union.  So, it would seem that churches have accepted that the legal definition takes precedence over the sacred.  Additionally there is a practice today that over half of all marriages go through that I would think is far more detrimental to the sacred view of marriage…  That would be divorce, and yet I can find any real lobbying effort to legally ban divorce in our society.  Why is that, and so to why is same-sex marriage any more detrimental to the sanctity of marriage than divorce?  I have been happily married for 27 years next month.  Never in all those years has the increasing rate of divorce had any negative impact on the sanctity of my marriage, nor has that of my homosexual friends’ relationships.  I see no reason to believe that allowing these friends to enter into the loving committed bond of matrimony would likewise have a negative impact

So, bottom line, my question is, as with most religious morals questions, why are Christians so intent on enforcing their moral views on everyone, even outside the Christian faith?  It seems to me no one is demanding, or even requesting, that you do something with which you have a moral problem…  And, no one is demanding that the (our choice here) church must perform these same-sex marriages. 

So what is the real issue with same-sex marriage???


Your comments or questions are always welcome, and I have added an email address for those not wishing to comment openly in this forum.  Emails can be sent to recoveringcathcon@gmail.com. However, please know that if this account is used to flood me with trash and hate mail, I will shut it down.